Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/22/2002 02:23 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                  HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                       April 22, 2002                                                                                           
                         2:23 P.M.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 02 - 89, Side A                                                                                                        
TAPE HFC 02 - 89, Side B                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams called the House  Finance Committee meeting                                                                   
to order at 2:23 P.M.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bill Williams, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative John Davies                                                                                                      
Representative Richard Foster                                                                                                   
Representative John Harris                                                                                                      
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative Ken Lancaster                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Eldon Mulder, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Con Bunde, Vice-Chair                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lesil McGuire;  Heather Brakes, Staff, Senator                                                                   
Gene   Therriault;   Mike  Tibbles,   Staff,   Representative                                                                   
Williams; Anne  Carpeneti, Assistant Attorney  General, Legal                                                                   
Services Section,  Criminal Division, Department  of Law; Pat                                                                   
Davidson, Director,  Division of Budget and  Audit; Catherine                                                                   
Reardon,  Director,   Division  of  Occupational   Licensing,                                                                   
Department of Community and Economic Development                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Linda  Wilson,   Deputy  Director,  Alaska   Public  Defender                                                                   
Agency, Department of Administration,  Anchorage; Ed Sniffen,                                                                   
Assistant  Attorney General,  Department  of Law,  Anchorage;                                                                   
Les Gara, Private Attorney, Consumer Protection, Anchorage                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 350    An Act relating to terroristic threatening.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          HB 350 was HEARD and HELD in Committee for further                                                                    
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 385    An  Act relating  to  the attorney  fees and  costs                                                                   
          awarded in certain court actions relating to                                                                          
          unfair trade practices; and amending Rules 54, 79,                                                                    
          and 82, Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          CS HB 385 (JUD) was reported out of Committee with                                                                    
          a "do pass" recommendation and with fiscal note #1                                                                    
          by the Department of Law.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SB 244    An Act extending the  termination date of the Board                                                                   
          of Examiners in Optometry; and relating to                                                                            
          optometrists.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          CS SB 244 (RLS) was reported out of Committee with                                                                    
          a "do pass" recommendation and with fiscal note #1                                                                    
          by the Department of Community & Economic                                                                             
          Development.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
#SB244                                                                                                                        
SENATE BILL NO. 244                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     An Act extending the termination date of the Board of                                                                      
     Examiners in Optometry; and relating to optometrists.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HEATHER BRAKES, STAFF, SENATOR  GENE THERRIAULT, testified in                                                                   
support  of the legislation.    She noted that  SB 244  would                                                                   
extend  the  termination   date  of  the  board,   make  some                                                                   
statutory  changes allowing  the  board  to more  effectively                                                                   
license  by  credentials,  update  the  continuing  education                                                                   
requirements to bring them in  line with current practice and                                                                   
regulation,  replace  the  State   practical  exam  with  the                                                                   
National  Board of  Examiners in  Optometry examination,  and                                                                   
would implement an Alaska Jurisprudence exam.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The audit was conducted under Alaska Statutes Title 24 & 44                                                                     
and the objectives were:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   · To determine if the termination date of the board                                                                          
     should be extended;                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   · To determine if the board is operating in the public                                                                       
     interest; and                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
   · To determine if the board has exercised appropriate                                                                        
     regulatory oversight of licensed optometrists.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Brakes stated  that the  Division  of Legislative  Audit                                                                   
(LBA) found that  the Board of Examiners in  Optometry should                                                                   
                        th                                                                                                      
be extended  to June  30,  2006,  which would  be a  standard                                                                   
four-year  extension.    Auditors found  the  regulation  and                                                                   
licensing of qualified optometrists  necessary to protect the                                                                   
public's  health,  safety, and  welfare  and  that the  board                                                                   
assists  in providing  that  public benefit  by  establishing                                                                   
minimum  educational   and  work  experience   standards  for                                                                   
licensure.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brakes noted  that on Page 7 of the report,  the findings                                                                   
and recommendations of the auditor  were indicated.   On Page                                                                   
15,  there is  a response  to the  recommendations from  that                                                                   
Division.   She noted that SB  244 had been drafted  based on                                                                   
those findings and recommendations  and attempts to implement                                                                   
that information.  It would:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
   · Extend the Board to June 30, 2006, the standard four-                                                                      
     year extension as recommended by the audit report                                                                          
     released on December 5, 2001 by the Legislative Budget                                                                     
     and Audit Committee;                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   · Allow the division to retain a photograph of an                                                                            
     applicant for future identification;                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
   · Eliminate the State practical exam, and gives the board                                                                    
     authority to administer an Alaska jurisprudence                                                                            
     examination;                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
   · Implement full licensure by credentials; and                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
   · Update the statutes regarding continuing education by                                                                      
     bringing them in line with current practice.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Whitaker referenced  Page 1,  Line 11,   that                                                                   
the  Department  may  require  the  applicant  "to  submit  a                                                                   
photograph".  He asked what the reason for that was.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms.   Brakes   replied   that   had  been   a   prior   audit                                                                   
recommendation made in 1995 when  the board was up for sunset                                                                   
review  the last  time.   The Division  of Legislative  Audit                                                                   
often  makes  a  finding and  recommendation  when  they  are                                                                   
reviewing the boards and commissions.   The audit recommended                                                                   
that the  board not require that  a photo be submitted.   The                                                                   
bill was originally drafted that  way, however, in the Senate                                                                   
Labor and  Commerce Committee,  the new  language was  worked                                                                   
out.  The photograph  will not be forwarded to  the board for                                                                   
licensure  consideration.    The Department  of  Community  &                                                                   
Economic Development  can retain it for  later identification                                                                   
but it is not something that needs to be considered                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Whitaker  asked  if there  was  concern  that                                                                   
there could be bias based upon someone's looks.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Brakes replied that there  was no evidence of that.  That                                                                   
is  a  protection  of  the  board   and  it  would  keep  any                                                                   
accusations  removed  from  it.     She  requested  that  Pat                                                                   
Davidson be allowed to testify regarding that concern.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PAT  DAVIDSON,  DIRECTOR,  DIVISION   OF  LEGISLATIVE  AUDIT,                                                                   
responded  that  generally,  LBA attempts  to  eliminate  any                                                                   
opportunity  for  a bias  to  come  into the  evaluation  for                                                                   
licensure.   There  was  not evidence  with  this board  that                                                                   
there  was bias.   Whenever  there  is licensure  that has  a                                                                   
subjected  element,   those  opportunities   are  eliminated.                                                                   
There have  been requests raised  that it would be  "nice" to                                                                   
have pictures of who your licensee  is.  It is just essential                                                                   
that the photograph does not accompany the application.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Whitaker  asked  if the  language  was  clear                                                                   
enough.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  replied that it  was.  The language  allows the                                                                   
Division of  Occupational Licensing  to have a  photograph in                                                                   
their files, but it keeps that  photo from going to the board                                                                   
for the license decision.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Whitaker asked  if "may" should be replaced by                                                                   
"shall".                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson reiterated that it was clear as written.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Davies  interjected incorporating  the  "not"                                                                   
makes the "may"  and the "shall" the same.   He inquired what                                                                   
the essence of the compromise was.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  replied that it  was a two-fold  compromise for                                                                   
examinations and investigation  purposes.  She noted that she                                                                   
supported the compromise.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Lancaster   asked  why  a  photo   was  being                                                                   
required.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson explained that has  been an on-going requirement                                                                   
and looking back,  the applicant was frequently  requested to                                                                   
submit a photograph.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hudson  questioned  if  the  requirement  was                                                                   
being eliminated for all professional licensing.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Davidson  replied that  for most of  the audits  that LBA                                                                   
provides a sunset  for, most of the requests  for photos have                                                                   
been   eliminated.     However,   there   are  licenses   and                                                                   
registrations still  done that  require photos that  have not                                                                   
yet been addressed.  She acknowledged  that it is currently a                                                                   
"mixed bag".                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CATHERINE   REARDON,  DIRECTOR,   DIVISION  OF   OCCUPATIONAL                                                                   
LICENSING, DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY  AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT,                                                                   
offered to answer questions of the Committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lancaster  MOVED to report CSSB  244 (RLS) out                                                                   
of Committee  with  individual recommendations  and with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal note.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Williams  asked  that   the  MOTION  be  WITHDRAWN.                                                                   
Representative Lancaster WITHDREW the MOTION.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MIKE TIBBLES,  STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS,  noted that he                                                                   
had been  working with the drafters  of the legislation.   He                                                                   
indicated  that   the  Committee  could  make   a  conceptual                                                                   
amendment to  the bill if  interested into existing  statute,                                                                   
on Page 2, Section  4, Line 15.  He pointed out  that #1 is a                                                                   
requirement  that person  have an  educational equivalent  of                                                                   
four years attendance at a State  high school.  He understood                                                                   
that the intent was that a student  could also have a general                                                                   
education diploma (GED) to qualify.   However, under the word                                                                   
"State",  the  GED would  not  qualify.   He  suggested  that                                                                   
language  be rephrased  in order  that,  later, it  is not  a                                                                   
potential problem.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hudson asked if  they would  have to be  in a                                                                   
certified high school.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tibbles replied that a person  could have a GED or degree                                                                   
from  any  high school  and  then  it  would be  a  certified                                                                   
graduate program.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft suggested  language  "had an  education                                                                   
equivalent to"  indicated that  it should be  okay.   The GED                                                                   
could be the education equivalent.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tibbles offered  to  check  to make  sure  that was  the                                                                   
intent with Legislative Legal Services.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft noted  for  the record  that there  are                                                                   
many things  that could  be the equivalent  to four  years of                                                                   
high  school   including  GED's,  private  schools   and  the                                                                   
military.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lancaster MOVED  to report CS SB 244 (RLS) out                                                                   
of Committee  with  individual recommendations  and with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal  note.  There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS SB  244 (RLS)  was reported  out of  Committee with  a "do                                                                   
pass"  recommendation   and  with  fiscal  note   #1  by  the                                                                   
Department of Community & Economic Development.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 385                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to the attorney fees and costs awarded                                                                     
     in certain court actions relating to unfair trade                                                                          
     practices; and amending Rules 54, 79, and 82, Alaska                                                                       
     Rules of Civil Procedure.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC  CROFT, SPONSOR, spoke in  support of the                                                                   
bill.    He  noted  that  the  controversial  aspect  of  the                                                                   
legislation   had  been  amended   in  the  House   Judiciary                                                                   
Committee.   What  is left of  the bill  allows the  attorney                                                                   
general's  office, when  they  fully prosecute  the  consumer                                                                   
protection  claim  and  prevail,   to  recover  their  costs.                                                                   
Consequently, if  someone has been defrauding  the public and                                                                   
after  a full  court  action,  is found  that  they did,  the                                                                   
legislation allows the State to recover full attorney fees.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft  advised  that  the  legislation  would                                                                   
address his  concerns that part  of the Department of  Law is                                                                   
chronically under funded, which  has been a long-term problem                                                                   
and  thus,  consumer  protection  claims have  become  a  low                                                                   
priority.  He claimed that the  proposed legislation would be                                                                   
a good mechanism to fund that concern.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ED  SNIFFEN,   (TESTIFIED   VIA  TELECONFERENCE),   ASSISTANT                                                                   
ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF  LAW, ANCHORAGE, testified in                                                                   
support  of the  legislation.   He reiterated  that the  bill                                                                   
would allow  the attorney  general's office  to recover  fees                                                                   
from consumer  protection  cases.  At  present time,  private                                                                   
attorneys have that authority.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
LES GARA,  (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE),  PRIVATE ATTORNEY,                                                                   
CONSUMER  PROTECTION, ANCHORAGE,  echoed his  support of  the                                                                   
legislation.   He  claimed that  the bill is  crucial to  the                                                                   
State of  Alaska for a  number of reasons.   It  is difficult                                                                   
for someone that has been defrauded  in a small consumer case                                                                   
to find a private attorney.  Consequently,  the only recourse                                                                   
that people have  is to go to the attorney  general's office.                                                                   
The  State of  Alaska has  the  smallest consumer  protection                                                                   
section in the  country and they also have  a budget problem.                                                                   
If the State is able to recover  it's full enforcement costs,                                                                   
then  there  will  be  a  system   in  the  State  where  the                                                                   
protection function of the State  does not cost the people of                                                                   
the State money.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He stressed that HB 385 is a very  healthy bill.  HB 385 will                                                                   
help the people of the State save  money.  Mr. Gara concluded                                                                   
that the proposed bill is a "win-win"  situation for everyone                                                                   
in  the  State  and  offered   to  answer  questions  of  the                                                                   
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hudson MOVED to  report CS HB 385 (JUD) out of                                                                   
Committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  with  the                                                                   
accompanying fiscal  note.  There being NO  OBJECTION, it was                                                                   
so ordered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CS HB  385 (JUD)  was reported  out of  Committee with  a "do                                                                   
pass"  recommendation   and  with  fiscal  note   #1  by  the                                                                   
Department of Law.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 350                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     An Act relating to terroristic threatening.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LESIL  MCGUIRE, SPONSOR, testified  in support                                                                   
of the  legislation.  She  commented that September  11, 2001                                                                   
changed the lives of Alaskan and  Americans.  What was once a                                                                   
concern for the  safety of those living, working  or visiting                                                                   
foreign destination  from terrorist  acts has painfully  come                                                                   
to the homeland.   The Nation has been warned  of the dangers                                                                   
associated with terrorism.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire stated  that terrorism is not confined                                                                   
to  public  transportation,  the   bombing  of  buildings  or                                                                   
government  offices.    The  added  threat  of  chemical  and                                                                   
biological warfare  and weapons  of mass destruction  make it                                                                   
clear  that the  world  is in  need  of redefining  our  laws                                                                   
regarding terrorism.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire  continued that the threat  alone of a                                                                   
terrorism  act  could cripple  the  community.   Imagine  the                                                                   
chaos that  would occur  if someone said  that they  had just                                                                   
contaminated the public water  utility with a deadly chemical                                                                   
agent.   Citizens would panic,  schools and businesses  would                                                                   
close,  and  in  general  the   community  would  come  to  a                                                                   
standstill.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
House Bill 350 would increase  criminal penalties for certain                                                                   
acts  of terrorism  and  would prohibit  terroristic  threats                                                                   
intended  to frighten  or cause  specific  harm to  citizens.                                                                   
House Bill 350 would increase  penalties of threats to water,                                                                   
food supplies, utilities and pipelines.   The bill would also                                                                   
provide law  enforcement for the  necessary tools  to arrest,                                                                   
detain and ultimately  prosecute an individual  who threatens                                                                   
public areas or  conveyances.  Any threat at  this time, must                                                                   
be taken seriously.   House Bill 350 would  increase criminal                                                                   
penalties  for certain  acts of terrorism  threats and  would                                                                   
punish criminals in accordance with the law.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire  proposed a change be made  to Page 9,                                                                   
Line  26,  deleting  "an"  and inserting  "a  public".    She                                                                   
thought that change would serve  as a middle ground to narrow                                                                   
concerns of the public about it being overly broad.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire  requested that Ms.  Carpeneti address                                                                   
the bill in further detail.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hudson  MOVED to adopt the  proposed amendment                                                                   
to Page 9, Line 26, deleting "an" and inserting "a public".                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Whitaker  asked  for an  explanation  of  the                                                                   
proposed language change.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire pointed  out that Line 21, sub-section                                                                   
©,  already states,  "causes serious  public  inconvenience".                                                                   
She  thought  that  it  could be  reasonably  argued  that  a                                                                   
private versus public charter would be preferred.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Whitaker asked  why the State was concerned it                                                                   
would be "overly broad" by not inserting "public".                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ANNE CARPENETI,  ASSISTANT ATTORNEY  GENERAL, LEGAL  SERVICES                                                                   
SECTION, CRIMINAL  DIVISION, DEPARTMENT  OF LAW,  stated that                                                                   
the concern is that the State  wanted to move slowly in terms                                                                   
of what is done  for a crime of terroristic threat.   A crime                                                                   
like that could be of harm to the public convenience.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
There being NO further OBJECTION, Amendment #1 was passed.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
LINDA   WILSON,  (TESTIFIED   VIA   TELECONFERENCE),   DEPUTY                                                                   
DIRECTOR,  ALASKA  PUBLIC  DEFENDER   AGENCY,  DEPARTMENT  OF                                                                   
ADMINISTRATION,  agreed that  since September  11, 2001,  the                                                                   
State government  and Legislature want  to and feel  the need                                                                   
to   respond   with  appropriate   legislation   to   address                                                                   
threatening  in an  effort to  tighten any  loop holes.   Ms.                                                                   
Wilson noted  that the Public  Defenders Agency  does support                                                                   
those efforts, however, it does not support HB 350.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson  outlined  the  concerns  with  the  bill.    The                                                                   
concerns  have to  due with  proportionality.   The  criminal                                                                   
laws in Alaska  were carefully classified in  accordance with                                                                   
the seriousness  of the  injury and  the cope-ability  of the                                                                   
defendant.   When crimes  were classified  in Alaska  twenty-                                                                   
five years ago, you would look  at the nature of the harm and                                                                   
the cope-ability  of  the defendant.   A Class  A felony  has                                                                   
been classified  for those crimes  that involve  conduct that                                                                   
actually  results  in  serious  physical  injury.    Class  B                                                                   
felonies  are generally  reported  for crimes  that are  less                                                                   
severe and the most aggravated of property damages.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Crimes that are  current Class A felonies are  assault in the                                                                   
 stst                                                                                                                           
1   degree, arson  in  the  1  degree,  misconduct  involving                                                                   
                     st                                                                                                         
weapons   in  the   1   degree,   and  misconduct   involving                                                                   
                             st                                                                                                 
controlled substances in the 1   degree.  The crimes that are                                                                   
generally  classified  as a  Class  B felony  are  aggravated                                                                   
                                             nd                                                                                 
burglary,  perjury, forgery,  and  less  serious property  or                                                                   
threat to physical injury.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilson stated  that HB 350 in regard to  the portionality                                                                   
and  the classification  scheme  currently  in statute  would                                                                   
fuse that by  moving some crimes "up" to levels  beyond which                                                                   
they  perhaps  should be.    She  pointed  out that  Page  3,                                                                   
                                                  st                                                                            
Section  3, proposes  to create  murder  in the  1  degree  a                                                                   
felony  murder specifically  for  the new  classification  of                                                                   
                           st                                                                                                   
criminal mischief in  the 1  degree as an Class  A felony and                                                                   
                                                   st                                                                           
the newly created terroristic threatening in the 1 degree.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson   stated  that  right   now,  felony   murder  is                                                                   
                                nd                                                                                              
classified  as murder  in the  2  degree.   When  there is  a                                                                   
felony  committed, there  are probably  ten crimes listed  in                                                                   
               nd                                                                                                               
murder in the 2  degree felony  murder section.  Those crimes                                                                   
                                    nd                                                                                          
currently listed in murder of the 2 degree category are:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
   · Kidnapping                                                                                                                 
                   st                                                                                                           
   · Arson in the 1 degree                                                                                                      
   · Sexual assault                                                                                                             
                                      stnd                                                                                      
   · Sexual abuse of a minor in the 1 or 2 degree                                                                               
                      st                                                                                                        
   · Burglary in the 1 degree                                                                                                   
                    stnd                                                                                                        
   · Escape in the 1 or 2 degree                                                                                                
   · Robbery in any degree                                                                                                      
                                                            nd                                                                  
   · Misconduct involving a controlled substance in the 2                                                                       
     degree                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                nd                                                                              
HB 350  would "leap frog"  over murder  in the 2   degree for                                                                   
                                               st                                                                               
the  particular  criminal  mischief  in  the  1   degree  and                                                                   
                                                            st                                                                  
terroristic threatening  and puts it  up to murder in  the 1                                                                    
degree.  She recommended that  it would be more appropriately                                                                   
stationed with  the other serious crimes, itemized  in murder                                                                   
        nd                                                                                                                      
in the 2 degree.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                            st                                                                  
Ms. Wilson  continued that  the criminal  mischief in  the 1                                                                    
degree section, elevates  what is currently a  Class B felony                                                                   
to  an Class  A felony.   By  doing  that, classification  of                                                                   
crime should not be piece mealed  together.  She thought that                                                                   
it would be  more appropriate to take a  generalized approach                                                                   
to classifications  and not  by a  response to one  incident.                                                                   
                                                    st                                                                          
As  currently written,  criminal  mischief in  the 1   degree                                                                   
seems appropriate  for a Class B felony.  Ms.  Wilson pointed                                                                   
out that a person could get nearly 10 years for a B felony.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilson  referenced the  terroristic threat provisions  of                                                                   
the  bill,  Page  8,  Section  17.    The  Public  Defender's                                                                   
concerns with that section are  that there should be specific                                                                   
intent  to place  a person  in fear.   The  problem with  the                                                                   
language is that  it does not require a result.   Adding that                                                                   
with  the  broad  language  of  the  biological  or  chemical                                                                   
substance,  defined broadly  as to include  material  that is                                                                   
harmful to  the health of  a person,  would classify it  as a                                                                   
Class B  felony.  She recommended  that an element  or result                                                                   
be  included which  could  be  accomplished by  amending  the                                                                   
language to  require that  they have the  intent to  and that                                                                   
they  additionally either  place  the person  in fear,  cause                                                                   
evacuation   of   a   building  or   cause   serious   public                                                                   
inconvenience.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson clarified  that in  several statutes,  biological                                                                   
and  chemical  weapons  are  described.    She  thought  that                                                                   
changing the  language from substance  to weapons,  and makes                                                                   
it  something  that  is  just  "harmful"  to  a  person  than                                                                   
something that  is more toxic  or designed to cause  death or                                                                   
harm  to  that person  for  what  is  being attempted  to  be                                                                   
addressed in that particular offense.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                    nd                                                                          
Ms. Wilson spoke  to terrorist threatening in  the 2  degree;                                                                   
the amendment proposed  would be well taken.   She added that                                                                   
it  would  be   very  appropriate  to   eliminate  completely                                                                   
subsection  (e).    That  language   is  already  covered  by                                                                   
subsection © and  is broad.  Ms. Wilson thought  the language                                                                   
could be too broad.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson  clarified  that   the  concerns  of  the  Public                                                                   
Defender Agency are  that the legislation should  look at the                                                                   
portionality  and that the  crimes fit so  that there  are no                                                                   
                                                     st                                                                         
loopholes.  However,  jumping into a murder in  the 1  degree                                                                   
would be  too much in one  direction.  Additionally,  jumping                                                                   
                             rd                                                                                                 
to criminal  mischief in the 3   degree to an Class  A felony                                                                   
is not  appropriate  and should  stay in the  Class B  felony                                                                   
that it already is.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative    Croft    referenced     the    "terroristic                                                                   
                      st                                                                                                        
threatening" in the  1  degree.  He suggested if  there was a                                                                   
practical joke  situation in which  the intent of  the person                                                                   
was to  place the  other person in  fear of physical  injury,                                                                   
would that be classified as a Class B felony.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilson replied that it would.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft pointed  out that  the "intent"  was to                                                                   
place a  person in fear of  a physical injury.   The "intent"                                                                   
would  be the  cause for  fear.   He asked  what the  penalty                                                                   
              st                                                                                                                
would be for 1 degree murder.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilson  replied that penalty would  be 20 to 99  years in                                                                   
                            nd                                                                                                  
prison.  The penalty for a 2   degree murder would be 5 to 99                                                                   
years in prison.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Croft asked if  there was a possibility  that                                                                   
                                                st                                                                              
the court could give less than 20 years for a 1 murder.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Wilson responded that they could not.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 02 - 89, Side B                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Carpeneti  explained that the  material would have  to be                                                                   
actually harmful  to a  person's health.   The intent  was to                                                                   
prohibit   false    anthrax   scares   that    cause   public                                                                   
inconvenience.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams  asked if Ms.  Wilson had testified  before                                                                   
the House Judiciary Committee.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson  replied that  she  had  not  as there  had  been                                                                   
complications with her equipment system.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams recommended  that the bill should be placed                                                                   
into Subcommittee to address the legal concerns.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Carpeneti  asked to  respond  to  comments made  by  Ms.                                                                   
Wilson.    She  pointed  out  that  many  of  the  provisions                                                                   
contained in HB 350 were taken  from the Governor's terrorism                                                                   
package.     She  added  that   after  September   11th,  the                                                                   
Department  of   Law  attorney's  got  together   to  discuss                                                                   
criminal acts.   The conclusion  was that there are  holes in                                                                   
our  current criminal  codes,  with  the main  concern  being                                                                   
damage to  the pipeline,  a damage  that could cause  serious                                                                   
public harm.    Other concerns  are damage to  water supplies                                                                   
and the possibility of an anthrax scare.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Carpeneti  disagreed  with comments  made by Ms.  Wilson.                                                                   
Causing damage  to the  oil or gas  pipeline or a  supporting                                                                   
facility is reasonable  to raise from a Class B  to a Class A                                                                   
felony.    The  bill  raises all  conduct  in  terms  of  the                                                                   
pipeline on one  level.  That is what exists  in current law,                                                                   
a Class B felony.  It would raise it to a Class A felony.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
                                              st                                                                                
Ms. Carpeneti  commented that murder  in the 1   degree, such                                                                   
as  when someone  kills  another  person  when blowing  up  a                                                                   
pipeline  facility,  that sort  of  terroristic  act has  the                                                                   
potential to cause  a lot of harm, which made  it appropriate                                                                   
                                          st                                                                                    
to increase the charge to murder in the 1 degree.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Carpeneti  agreed  with   Ms.  Wilson's  specifics  that                                                                   
perhaps  it  could  be "tighter",  however,  she  noted  that                                                                   
something would need  to be "harmful".  She  added that would                                                                   
answer  the concerns  voiced by  Representative  Croft.   She                                                                   
commented  that   these  had  been  the   concerns  discussed                                                                   
throughout  the State  regarding the  problems with  Alaska's                                                                   
criminal code and response to acts of terrorism.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hudson pointed out the five fiscal notes.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative   Davies   agreed  that   terrorist   activity                                                                   
concerning the  pipeline should be reclassified.   He thought                                                                   
that if  there was  "intent" but  nothing actually  happened,                                                                   
                                    nd                                                                                          
the crime should  be classified as 2  degree.   He referenced                                                                   
the section.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Carpeneti replied  that section does not  address harm to                                                                   
the pipeline.   In response to Representative  J. Davies, Ms.                                                                   
Carpeneti explained that the way  in which "intent" is proven                                                                   
is through being successful.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire  countered that the State  already has                                                                   
on the books  AS 11.56.810 which includes all  the items with                                                                   
the actual  exemption of  sending a  "package".  She  thought                                                                   
that Representative J. Davies'  concern rested with reference                                                                   
back to Section #3.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Davies  agreed that was  part of it  and would                                                                   
also include  the reality  of the  event actually  happening.                                                                   
                                                            st                                                                  
He noted  his concern  with the  crime raising  it to  the 1                                                                    
                                                            st                                                                  
degree.  He suggested to take  the written language in the 1                                                                    
                          nd                                                                                                    
degree,  move it to  the 2   degree and  then rewrite  it for                                                                   
when one of the listed offenses actually happens.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative McGuire agreed that would work.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft acknowledged  that he liked the bill and                                                                   
the intent.  He  worried about some sections of  the bill and                                                                   
offered to help address those concerns.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Representative  McGuire advised that  it had been  the intent                                                                   
to take  portions  of the Governor's  bill  and her bill  and                                                                   
make  the  definitions  consistent.     She  noted  that  the                                                                   
biological  and chemical substance  is consistent  throughout                                                                   
the  bill and  added  that she  was  willing  to narrow  that                                                                   
language with the suggested conceptual language.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft  asked Ms. Wilson if she  had referenced                                                                   
the federal law definitions.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Wilson  advised  that  she  used  definitions  from  the                                                                   
Internet that defined Title 18,  U.S. Code, the definition of                                                                   
a chemical  weapon as a  "toxic chemical and  its' precursors                                                                   
that are  intended for  a purpose  not prohibited under  that                                                                   
chapter".    It also  mentioned  a  chemical weapon  being  a                                                                   
munitions or device  specifically designed to  cause death or                                                                   
other harm through toxic properties.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Representative Croft acknowledged  that language could be too                                                                   
"tight" but that it could be used  as the "outer" guidelines.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Williams  commented that the  bill would be  HELD in                                                                   
Committee  for  Representative  McGuire,  Ms.  Carpeneti  and                                                                   
Representative Croft to meet to discuss the legal matters.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HB 350 was HELD in Committee for further consideration.                                                                         
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 3:36 P.M.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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